Pursuit of the truth requires more than imagination: it requires the generation and decisive elimination of alternative possibilities until, ideally, only one remains, and it requires a habitual readiness to attack one's own convictions.
- Thomas Nagel, The View From Nowhere

September 29, 2011

9/11 Truthers and Creationists are Strange Bedfellows




In a previous post, I noted the various failures of the '9/11 Truth Movement' focusing on commentary from the book How to Think About Weird Things: Critical Thinking for a New Age by Theodore Shick and Lewis Vaughn in addition to an article from a demolition expert who counters the claims made by '9/11 truthers.' While I touched on various logical fallacies and critical thinking errors, I did not focus on the specific strategies of the '9/11 Truth Movement' nor did I notice that 'truthers' are very similar to creationists. In this post, I will argue that the fallacies of the '9/11 truther movement' are very similar to creationists by point out very specific examples drawn from a local blogger known as "Big Dan" of "Big Dan's Big Blog" in addition to other websites that include 9/11 conspiracy theories and denial of evolution.

Here's my argument in a simple deductive form because many have missed the point.

Premise one: One is unjustified in believing a conclusion if the methodology used to arrive at such a conclusion is deeply flawed.
Premise two: The methodology creationists use is deeply flawed.
Premise three: The methodology '9/11 truthers' use is similar to that of creationists.
Conslusion: One is unjustified in believing the conclusion of '9/11 truthers.'


One of the biggest strategies of both creationists and '9/11 truthers' is what I will call the 'house of cards strategy.' '9/11 truthers' and creationists envision accepted accounts of how the world is and what has happened in the past as a flimsy house of cards; if one part of the house is 'pulled out,' they believe that the accepted account completely fails and, of course, their version automatically wins out. This is a classic example of a false dichotomy in which two options are posed and if one is problematic, the flawed logic assumes, the other option automatically wins. As far as evolution and the accepted version of the narrative and happenings surrounding 9/11, it will be the case that there will be some errors in what was initially posited as truth - and this is inevitable. The errors, though, do not entail that the entire theory falls apart.


'9/11 truthers' and creationists love to cherry pick some accounts instead of looking at the whole picture. Creationists, for example, will point to Piltdown Man or Haeckel's Embyros (without, of course, looking for what the relevant experts have to say about these or performing a rudimentary Google search) and believe that this is enough reason to discount evolution.


'9/11 truthers' will say things like "The hijackers' names were not on the flight manifests" and conclude, of course, that "this is evidence of a lie." The earliest released information was, in fact, not manifests, but rather lists of the victims. The manifests were later released, but the '9/11 truthers' will not acknowledge that...and if they do, they offer ad hoc explanations to explain away the evidence which leads me into the next point...


Creationists and '9/11 Truthers,' when confronted with evidence that would dismiss their arguments, offer unfalsifiable/untestable explanations that are coupled with no evidence or very weak evidence. Creationists may say that fossils are just 'a test of faith.' '9/11 truthers' will say that the evidence is simply part of the conspiracy. In the case of photos of the hijackers, Big Dan notes that "You'd have to contact family members and get them to provide you with photos, right? Unless of course you had the photos in advance [...] There is NO WAY (emphasis his) - they would have withheld the complete list of alleged hijackers [sic] names until such time as they had tracked down every perfectly framed and in-focus head shot of every alleged hijacker." Why should we assume that fossils are a 'test of faith?' How can we possibly demonstrate this? Why assume that the evidence is part of the conspiracy?


Creationists and '9/11 truthers' both make inappropriate appeals to authority and assume, just because someone has some sort of title, that everything that person says is true regardless of what other relevant experts have to say who overwhelmingly disagree. Creationists appeal to people like Michael Behe who allege that systems must be intelligently designed because if one part of a system is removed, the system breaks down. '9/11 truthers' appeal to what ought to be called the poster-child of the inappropriate appeal to authority, ae911truth.org, for their information. The 'experts' are often speaking outside of their fields and do not offer peer-reviewed studies to supplement their ideas. The 'Architects and engineers for 9/11 truth' are speaking outside of their field when they are discussing controlled demolition. The controlled demolition experts have not come to a consensus stating that 9/11 was a controlled demolition...and those are the people we should listen to (and not just because they are experts on controlled demolitions, but rather because they are the best to interpret the evidence and present the evidence).


Creationists and '9/11 truthers' commit the informal logical fallacy known as the argument from ignorance. Both groups frequently use this pattern, championed by Bill O' Reilly, to supplement their arguments: this can't be explained, therefore conspiracy/God. Just because something can't be explained or is not explained does not mean that the creationist or '9/11 truther' is justified in asserting their claims.


The main narrative of the 9/11 conspiracy theorists is that the government and the media lie, have lied, and have participated in deception in the past. They reason, therefore, that since the media and government presented information regarding 9/11, it must be false. Creationists point to examples like Cold Fusion or paint scientists to be 'dogmatists' and therefore reason that scientists can not be trusted. Both camps posit non-sequiturs unjustifiably distrusting the sources of information (that are often quite unrelated or have nothing to do with what they are attacking).


While it is often a great idea to distrust patently unreliable sources of information such as World Net Daily, Conservapedia, or Life Site News, for example, the reasons for doing so should be quite obvious and rejecting such sources is acceptable. In the case of the government and media, it certainly is true that there has been deception and lies, but it simply doesn't follow that everything presented by the government and media (particularly information surrounding 9/11 is false). Similarly, attacking all of science or evolution by attacking certain scientists or trying to paint scientists as dogmatists is unjustified. One of the main goals of science is to reduce bias as much as possible, weed out bad ideas by scrutiny and peer review, and arrive at the best information possible. While some bad studies may be published, this doesn't mean that everything published should be dismissed.


Creationists and '9/11 truthers' commit the false cause fallacy. Creationists claim that evolution is part of a strategy to 'eliminate God' in the schools and 'promote atheism.' They look at the removal of school prayer, for example, and notice the increase of teaching of evolution in schools and reason that there is some sort of 'agenda' going on. '9/11 truthers' allege that 9/11 was some conspiracy by the Bush administration because of the increased militarism of the United States (namely Iraq and Afghanistan).'


Creationists and '9/11 truthers' create the illusion of controversy. Creationists allege that there is a great deal of controversy and that evolution is 'just a weak theory.' 'Organizations' such as the Discovery Institute try to make their side seem professional by asserting that there are 'creation scientists.' No significant amount of scientists, though, reject evolution despite various lists that creationists may accumulate. Similar to the creationists, '9/11 truthers' also present lists of people. Right on the front page of ae911truth.org, one of the first group of lines of text seen reads "1,601 verified architectural and engineering professionals and 13,342 other supporters have signed the petition demanding of Congress a truly independent investigation."
Truth is not a matter of popularity. When scientists reach a consensus, their ideas are not justified simply because there are so many people who accept them, but rather because the evidence warrants a consensus and because there is no reasonable doubt. While specifics or predictions made by the background theory might be questionable, the background theory itself does not suddenly become unjustified.


While I have not devoted a significant amount of time to study of the 9/11 attacks, I can spot fallacious thinking when I see it. Creationists and '9/11 truthers' commit very similar errors in thinking...not to mention the fact that much of the information they present has been discredited or 'answered' in various venues.

34 comments:

  1. Add birthers to the list too.

    ReplyDelete
  2. "I have not devoted a significant amount of time to study of the 9/11 attacks" - Justin Vacula

    Justin can BEGIN his research by watching these videos:

    The following video is made by THOUSANDS of experts who give their names, degrees, and experience: ARCHITECTS, ENGINEERS, PHYSICISTS, PSYCHOLOGISTS, FIREMEN, and other REAL EXPERTS:

    (2 hrs 19 min)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW6mJOqRDI4&feature=player_embedded

    Here is the LUDICROUS EVIDENCE-FREE "official" 9/11 story YOU believe, in a short video highlighting the "official" story told to us by TV and politicians (NOT REAL EXPERTS). It is what YOU believe, Justin, don't LAUGH while you're watching it, it's 4 minutes long, I'm sure you can find the time for this one as you are too busy to really look into 9/11:

    (4 min 56 sec)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuC_4mGTs98

    Here is another short video of HUNDREDS OF PSYCHOLOGISTS who will tell YOU why people like YOU cannot deal with the TRUTH of 9/11:

    (15 min 8 sec; notice the first words from the psychologist who opens the video is: "AT THIS POINT WE HAVE 9 YEARS OF HARD SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE THAT DISPROVES THE GOVERNMENT THEORY ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED ON SEPTEMBER 11, AND YET PEOPLE CONTINUE TO BE EITHER OBLIVIOUS TO THE FACT THAT THIS INFORMATION EXISTS OR COMPLETELY RESISTANT TO LOOKING AT THIS INFORMATION, SO THE QUESTION BECOMES: WHY? WHY IS IT THAT PEOPLE HAVE SO MUCH TROUBLE HEARING THIS INFORMATION? FROM MY WORK, I THINK WE WOULD BE REMISS NOT TO LOOK AT THE IMPACT OF 'TRAUMA'")

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEGgAk1AbA4&feature=player_embedded

    World Trade Center building 7 (WTC7) fell on 9/11 and was NOT HIT BY A PLANE, fell free-fall speed controlled demolition style POOF! Into a pile of dust:

    Architects & Engineers - Solving the Mystery of WTC 7 - AE911Truth.org

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZEvA8BCoBw&feature=player_embedded

    ALL OF THESE VIDEOS WERE PRODUCED BY THE THOUSANDS OF REAL EXPERTS WHO GIVE THEIR NAMES, DEGREES, AND EXPERIENCE - THEIR WEBSITE IS:

    ARCHITECTS AND ENGINEERS FOR 9/11 TRUTH DOT ORG

    http://www.ae911truth.org/

    I remember when that webiste had 100 members, and NOW has grown, and continues to grow, to 1,628 verified architectural and engineering professionals and 13,621 other supporters. Just a few days ago they had 1,602.


    NOW................Justin DOES have a picture of a MONKEY and a DOG for his side of the argument. AND, no evidence or experts save for the government-connected NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology - part of the GOVERNMENT, one of the culprits -> did Justin expect NIST to say: "OUR FINDINGS ARE: WE DID IT!!!"???), and Justin has quoted the slick site debunking911 which has been discredited as having government ties (WHO runs that site, Justin? Oh! No one knows for sure! Not like AE911truth.org who give their names, degrees, and experience!), and Justin also likes to quote a MAGAZINE: Popular Mechanics. Justin: what is ESPN Magazine's take on 9/11? How about People Magazine? TV Guide?

    But like I said: Justin DOES have a picture of a MONKEY and a DOG!

    ....WHOOPS! I think that's actually an ORANGUTANG (?).

    ReplyDelete
  3. Also of note: Justin Vacula defriended me from FaceBook and additionally has me blocked from him on FaceBook, and it appears the same with Kenny Luck, author of the book NEPATIZED, which covers and extensively quotes both me and Justin. Interesting.

    What is Kenny Luck's stance on 9/11? Am I blocked from both of you on FaceBook because of my stance on 9/11? What is the reason?

    JUST AS I AM CORRECT IN MY LOCAL MEDIA ANALYSIS IN THE BOOK "NEPATIZED", I AM CORRECT ABOUT 9/11.

    JUSTIN VACULA IS WRONG ABOUT 9/11, THE OFFICIAL STORY HAS ZERO EVIDENCE BACKING IT, ZERO REAL EXPERTS NOT CONNECTED TO THE GOVERNMENT BACKING IT.

    Why has Justin Vacula not put much time into researching 9/11, but yet it seems the only time he has put in has been on the "official" story side: NIST, Popular Mechanics, debunking911 website? Why hasn't Justin put any time into watching the above videos I've posted, if he's serious about the TRUTH of 9/11?

    The videos above that I posted ADDRESS NIST and Popular Mechanics! And call them "NON-SCIENTIFIC". That's THOUSANDS of scientists and other experts calling them NON-SCIENTIFIC!

    ReplyDelete
  4. PHYSICIST DAVID CHANDLER ON THE NORTH TOWER EXPLODING:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgN080yySe0

    PHYSICIST DAVID CHANDLER ON THE SOUTH TOWER EXPLODING:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DChR1XcYhlw

    PHYSICIST DAVID CHANDLER ON THE CONTROLLED DEMOLITION OF WTC7 (NOT HIT BY A PLANE; ADDRESSES NIST):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP9Qp5QWRMQ

    ReplyDelete
  5. What does the MONKEY and the DOG say about the North Tower, South Tower, and WTC7?

    ReplyDelete
  6. Popular Mechanics Attacks Its "9/11 LIES" Straw Man (this is the technique Justin Vacula uses with the picture of the monkey/dog and comparing CREATIONISTS to THOUSAND OF SCIENTISTS AND OTHER REAL EXPERTS):

    The Hearst-owned Popular Mechanics magazine takes aim at the 9/11 Truth Movement (without ever acknowledging it by that name) with a cover story in its March 2005 edition. Sandwiched between ads and features for monster trucks, NASCAR paraphernalia, and off-road racing are twelve dense and brilliantly designed pages purporting to debunk the myths of 9/11.

    The article's approach is to identify and attack a series of claims which it asserts represent the whole of 9/11 skepticism. It gives the false impression that these claims, several of which are clearly absurd, represent the breadth of challenges to the official account of the flights, the World Trade Center attack, and the Pentagon attack. Meanwhile it entirely ignores vast bodies of evidence showing that only insiders had the means, motive, and opportunity to carry out the attack.

    http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pm/

    ReplyDelete
  7. Description of Straw Man

    The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:

    Person A has position X.
    Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
    Person B attacks position Y.
    Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.

    This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person.
    Examples of Straw Man

    Prof. Jones: "The university just cut our yearly budget by $10,000."
    Prof. Smith: "What are we going to do?"
    Prof. Brown: "I think we should eliminate one of the teaching assistant positions. That would take care of it."
    Prof. Jones: "We could reduce our scheduled raises instead."
    Prof. Brown: " I can't understand why you want to bleed us dry like that, Jones."

    "Senator Jones says that we should not fund the attack submarine program. I disagree entirely. I can't understand why he wants to leave us defenseless like that."

    Bill and Jill are arguing about cleaning out their closets:
    Jill: "We should clean out the closets. They are getting a bit messy."
    Bill: "Why, we just went through those closets last year. Do we have to clean them out everyday?"
    Jill: "I never said anything about cleaning them out every day. You just want too keep all your junk forever, which is just ridiculous."

    ReplyDelete
  8. YOU LIE, JUSTIN! You said there were trutherS. Plural. Not just one misguided fella. I'm skeptical of your claims from now on.

    ReplyDelete
  9. "Creationists and '9/11 truthers' both make inappropriate appeals to authority and assume, just because someone has some sort of title, that everything that person says is true regardless of what other relevant experts have to say who overwhelmingly disagree. Creationists appeal to people like Michael Behe who allege that systems must be intelligently designed because if one part of a system is removed, the system breaks down. '9/11 truthers' appeal to what ought to be called the poster-child of the inappropriate appeal to authority, ae911truth.org, for their information. The 'experts' are often speaking outside of their fields and do not offer peer-reviewed studies to supplement their ideas. The 'Architects and engineers for 9/11 truth' are speaking outside of their field when they are discussing controlled demolition. The controlled demolition experts have not come to a consensus stating that 9/11 was a controlled demolition...and those are the people we should listen to (and not just because they are experts on controlled demolitions, but rather because they are the best to interpret the evidence and present the evidence)."


    So what if the magazine is Hearst owned...or with ads for racing?
    The real experts (note: not ae911truth.org people) have come to a consensus on this matter; there is no consensus pointing toward your view.

    ReplyDelete
  10. David Chandler...debunked
    http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/search/label/David%20Chandler

    "Creationists and '9/11 truthers' both make inappropriate appeals to authority and assume, just because someone has some sort of title, that everything that person says is true regardless of what other relevant experts have to say who overwhelmingly disagree. Creationists appeal to people like Michael Behe who allege that systems must be intelligently designed because if one part of a system is removed, the system breaks down. '9/11 truthers' appeal to what ought to be called the poster-child of the inappropriate appeal to authority, ae911truth.org, for their information. The 'experts' are often speaking outside of their fields and do not offer peer-reviewed studies to supplement their ideas. The 'Architects and engineers for 9/11 truth' are speaking outside of their field when they are discussing controlled demolition. The controlled demolition experts have not come to a consensus stating that 9/11 was a controlled demolition...and those are the people we should listen to (and not just because they are experts on controlled demolitions, but rather because they are the best to interpret the evidence and present the evidence)."

    ReplyDelete
  11. "One of the biggest strategies of both creationists and '9/11 truthers' is what I will call the 'house of cards strategy.' '9/11 truthers' and creationists envision accepted accounts of how the world is and what has happened in the past as a flimsy house of cards; if one part of the house is 'pulled out,' they believe that the accepted account completely fails and, of course, their version automatically wins out. This is a classic example of a false dichotomy in which two options are posed and if one is problematic, the flawed logic assumes, the other option automatically wins. As far as evolution and the accepted version of the narrative and happenings surrounding 9/11, it will be the case that there will be some errors in what was initially posited as truth - and this is inevitable. The errors, though, do not entail that the entire theory falls apart."

    ReplyDelete
  12. Again, I don't need to 'put time' in to recognize that your methodology is tremendously flawed. If you're still not 'getting it,' I can revamp this entire post to remove anything about creationists and just attack the methodology. Let me ask you this: Do you accept what sublaxation chiropracters, dowsers, ghost hunters, Hindu mystics, acupuncturists, homeopaths, etc have to say? I'm sure you didn't put much time in, but, regardless, you can be justified in rejecting their claims because the real experts dismiss the claims and you can see their failed methodology.

    Here is a short part from my philosophy capstone paper:

    "Some may consider believing based on what authority figures and experts believe is a faith-based initiative, but this is often not the case. Someone may assent to a belief just because a figure of authority endorses it, but this is not an intellectually virtuous move. Beliefs should not be held just because authority figures hold them, but rather should be held because experts have sufficient reason, argument, and evidence justifying their claims. The intellectually virtuous person can examine the given evidence and can come to a conclusion that holding a belief that is a consensus opinion is justified. If a person cannot understand evidence supporting a position because of a lack of familiarity or some other reason, a person can still be justified in holding a belief. Experts are experts for a reason – they are sufficiently trained to make claims about knowledge that pertain to their fields. In many disciplines, many experts exist and arrive at consensus opinions, so one need not assent to the belief of one expert.

    Shick and Vaughn discuss expert opinion and appeal to philosopher Bertrand Russell's three criterion regarding expert opinion: “ (1) that when the experts are agreed, the opposite opinion cannot be held to be certain; (2) that when they are not agreed, no opinion can be regarded as certain by a non-expert; (3) that when they all hold that no sufficient grounds for a positive opinion exist, the ordinary man would do well to suspend his judgment” (Shick and Vaughn 71). Shick and Vaughn write that we do not defer to experts because they are always right, but rather because they are more likely to be right because they have more information than we have, they are better judges of the evidence, and they are generally more knowledgeable than we are (72). Shick and Vaughn note words of caution, “Just because someone is an expert in one field doesn't mean that he or she is an expert in another” and also explain that if one were to make an appeal to an expert who is a non-expert in another field he/she would make a fallacious appeal to authority (73)."

    ReplyDelete
  13. Foreknowledge of Building 7's Collapse : Dr. Graeme MacQueen (short version)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfwJMRgcLs0

    ReplyDelete
  14. Hot Rhetoric and labels:

    We're all just people. The dividers seek to label us as separate, one from another - polarized.

    But in the end, we're all just people - one.

    What does "Truther" imply? One who seeks the truth?

    What would the opposite goal be?

    One who actively seeks to avoid knowing the truth - or allowing it to become known?

    Would this group be called "Truth Deniers?"

    By whom?

    Who would wish to label themselves as such?

    Nobody.

    Truthers did not select this label for themselves, the dividers did.

    Truthers accepted it - but did not invent this branding strategy.

    Why did the dividers not create a brand for those not identified as "Truthers?"

    Because the seek to minimize the size and significance of those seeking the truth - marginalizing them as apart from the majority, when in fact, they are the 99%

    All citizens seek truth.

    ReplyDelete
  15. DID YOU OR DID YOU NOT WATCH THE VIDEOS I POSTED?

    ReplyDelete
  16. 1,632 verified architectural and engineering professionals:

    http://www.ae911truth.org/

    ReplyDelete
  17. DID YOU WATCH THE VIDEOS I POSTED...or did you just GOOGLE "debunk david chandler" and post a link?

    ReplyDelete
  18. Generally, the straw man is a highly exaggerated or over-simplified
    version of the opponent's original statement, which has been distorted
    to the point of absurdity.

    Distorted to the point of absurdity...

    Like making a comparison between Creationists and 9/11 Truthers, or, apples & oranges.

    ReplyDelete
  19. "I don't need to 'put time'" - JUSTIN VACULA

    ReplyDelete
  20. Justin: you shouldn't make ANY COMMENTS about 9/11. You, in your OWN WORDS, said things like you didn't put time into it, you really didn't look into it, etc...

    You are making a FOOL of yourself!

    ReplyDelete
  21. You're completely missing my point of this post. I need not have put much time at all into it if I can show that your methodology is flawed.

    ReplyDelete
  22. I don't care to because their methodology is flawed.

    ReplyDelete
  23. ...or an inappropriate appeal to authority and individuals who have been debunked and discredited. Can I make a big list of people who disagree and show you it? If I do, will you give up?

    ReplyDelete
  24. You know, Dan, creationists do the same thing as you...."Oh, look here is a list of creation scientists!"

    ReplyDelete
  25. If you really want to put some time into studying 9/11:

    Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth

    http://www.ae911truth.org/

    9/11 Review

    http://www.911review.com/index.html

    9/11 Truth

    http://www.911truth.org/

    Journal of 9/11 Studies

    http://www.journalof911studies.com/

    Pilots For 9/11 Truth

    http://pilotsfor911truth.org/pressrelease.html

    Patriots Question 9/11 Truth

    http://patriotsquestion911.com/

    WTC7.net

    http://www.wtc7.net/index.html

    ReplyDelete
  26. Or will you just GOOGLE each one above with the word "debunk", and then post THAT, without studying it yourself.

    ReplyDelete
  27. The CONCLUSION to Dr. Graeme MacQueen's HYPOTHESIS is as follows, which he recaps at the end of the video:

    1. THERE WAS WIDESPREAD FOREKNOWLEDGE OF WTC7'S COLLAPSE

    2. THIS FOREKNOWLEDGE IS INCOMPATIBLE WITH NIST'S COLLAPSE HYPOTHESIS

    3. THEREFORE, NIST'S HYPOTHESIS IS WRONG

    4. THE CONTROLLED DEMOLITION HYPOTHESIS IS COMPATIBLE WITH THE EVIDENCE OF FOREKNOWLEDGE

    5. THERE IS ALSO WITNESS EVIDENCE THAT SUPPORTS THE CONTROLLED DEMOLITION HYPOTHESIS

    Now Justin, don't GOOGLE "dr graeme macqueen debunk", then post a link to some anonymous site that no one knows who runs it.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Justin: would you be insulted if I googled a few links on atheism and religion and then said I know more than you about it, you're wrong?

    That is what you are doing about 9/11.

    You yourself have admitted you haven't spent much time on it. I have spent YEARS researching it, I've watched 100 films, read 100+ articles, etc...researching 9/11 for YEARS.

    I'm asking you to watch all the videos I've posted, then do additional research, and THEN say you believe the official story.

    ReplyDelete
  29. I'm wondering why I should watch any of these videos when the scientific community has not reached a consensus regarding 9/11 being a conspiracy...and that there is a severe lack of published peer-reviewed papers from your so called 'experts.'

    ReplyDelete
  30. Researching for a large amount of time is not the be-all-and-end-all. If the arguments and the methodology is bad, the claim is no good.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Here's the official story, no word of lie, this guy put the whole official story together that we were told by the media and govt:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuC_4mGTs98

    I believe the official story for YEARS, like most everyone else.

    It takes ONE THING to make you start questioning it.

    I still remember mine: I read somewhere (mid 2000's), that hijacker and ringleader and "pilot" Muhammed Atta's VISA was found in pristine condition at Ground Zero. HERE'S THE GUY WHO DID IT!!! HERE'S HIS VISA!

    I thought: "NO WAY! We were told the fires were so intense as to melt steel (which is impossible btw), and this guy's identification FLEW OUT of the Boeing he flew into one of the Twin Towers, landed peacefully in pristine condition below, and the FBI found it?

    I really thought: NO WAY!!!!!!!

    Then I started researching other things. I started thinking, IF WE WERE "TAKEN BY SURPRISE", how did they have the whole thing solved in real time while it was happening, complete with the pictures of "WHO DUNNIT" - the 19 hijackers, Osama Bin Laden, etc...?

    Then I asked myself, WHY DID THEY IMMEDIATELY WORK 24x7 TO CART OFF ALL THE EVIDENCE, SHIP OUT AND MELT DOWN ALL THE STEEL, send it to another country...instead of investigating how FIRE can make 3 skyscrapers fall free fall every inch exploding at the exact same time?

    Then I thought: ONE OF THEM WASN'T EVEN HIT BY A PLANE! WTC7, a 47 story building a block away from the Twin Towers, fell in 6 seconds free fall speed AND WASN'T HIT BY A PLANE!

    IMPOSSIBLE! I thought. Then MORE AND MORE questions came like a floodgate was opened.

    Why did the Bush administration stonewall a 9/11 investigation?

    When Bush testified for the 9/11 commission, why did he have to have Cheney with him? Why didn't they testify under oath?

    WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

    Then we attacked IRAQ, which had nothing to do with 9/11!!!

    And on and on and on.........

    IMPOSSIBLE! All these things are IMPOSSIBLE and don't make any sense.

    Then I went back to the Pentagon and could not find a picture of a BOEING anywhere: NO PICTURES AND NO VIDEO of a Boeing hitting the Pentagon. IMPOSSIBLE! But there were pictures OF the Pentagon hit...BUT NO BOEING WRECKAGE!

    Then I went back to Shanksville: NO BOEING WRECKAGE IN ANY OF THE MANY PICTURES @ SHANKSVILLE!

    IMPOSSIBLE! And ALL these things? About 50 miracles we're expected to believe that day? The only 3 steel frame buildings in history go down free fall controlled demolition style? ONE wasn't even hit by a plane? It fell due to "office fire"? A "one-time unexplainable phenomenon"? All the Boeings DISINTEGRATED???

    It's hard to believe ONE of those things taken on a one-on-one basis.

    THE ODDS OF ALL THOSE MIRACLES IN ONE STORY IS IMPOSSIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Mindbogglingly impossible. It IS impossible to believe the official story.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Your post should be comparing CREATIONISTS with PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THE OFFICIAL 9/11 STORY.

    Because BOTH GROUPS BELIEVE in MIRACLES!

    I believe the THOUSANDS of architects, engineers, and other experts of http://www.ae911truth.org/ who use the SCIENTIFIC METHOD to prove their 9/11 hypotheses and conclusions.

    YOU cite: SCREWLOOSECHANGE, DEBUNKING911, etc....anonymous websites who do not use the scientific method.

    I don't believe you watched this film, because you cannot dispute anything these EXPERTS are saying:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW6mJOqRDI4

    Justin Vacula: "Researching for a large amount of time is not the be-all-and-end-all. If the arguments and the methodology is bad, the claim is no good. "

    So I ask you, based on your quote above, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE EXPERTS' ARGUMENTS AND METHODOLOGY in that video above, making their claim not good?

    Well, you wouldn't know that, because you didn't watch it yet.

    DID YOU WATCH THAT FILM YET?

    You'll probably say: "I DON'T HAVE TO. I KNOW THEY'RE WRONG WITHOUT WATCHING IT, EVEN THOUGH I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THEY'RE SAYING BECAUSE I DIDN'T WATCH IT".

    Right?

    Did you watch it? Yes or No?

    ReplyDelete
  33. In that video I posted above, the scientists who made that video say they use "THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD", right at the beginning.

    YOU say: "If the arguments and the methodology is bad, the claim is no good."

    So are you saying the EXPERTS who made that video are NOT using "THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD"? Or are you saying that they are LYING? The thousands of experts?

    The scientific method is accurate regardless of who uses it.

    Here is a film by Richard Gage, founder of AE911truth (architect), and at the beginning of this famous movie "9/11 BLUEPRINT FOR TRUTH", he states he uses "THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD" to prove the official story of the 3 skyscrapers at ground zero cannot be scientifically true.

    Notice: this movie is a few years old, and he also states at the beginning that there are "hundreds" of architects and engineers at AE911TRUTH at that time. NOW, it's grown to over 1,632.

    ARCHITECT RICHARD GAGE: 9/11 BLUEPRINT FOR TRUTH -

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQgVCj7q49o




    JUSTIN VACULA: "If the arguments and the methodology is bad, the claim is no good. "

    RICHARD GAGE: I USE THE "SCIENTIFIC METHOD" to prove the official 9/11 story IMPOSSIBLE.

    JUSTIN VACULA: "If the arguments and the methodology is bad, the claim is no good. "

    RICHARD GAGE: I USE THE "SCIENTIFIC METHOD" to prove the official 9/11 story IMPOSSIBLE.

    JUSTIN VACULA: "If the arguments and the methodology is bad, the claim is no good. "

    RICHARD GAGE: I USE THE "SCIENTIFIC METHOD" to prove the official 9/11 story IMPOSSIBLE.

    JUSTIN VACULA: "If the arguments and the methodology is bad, the claim is no good. "

    RICHARD GAGE: I USE THE "SCIENTIFIC METHOD" to prove the official 9/11 story IMPOSSIBLE.

    JUSTIN VACULA: "If the arguments and the methodology is bad, the claim is no good. "

    RICHARD GAGE: I USE THE "SCIENTIFIC METHOD" to prove the official 9/11 story IMPOSSIBLE.

    JUSTIN VACULA: "If the arguments and the methodology is bad, the claim is no good. "

    RICHARD GAGE: I USE THE "SCIENTIFIC METHOD" to prove the official 9/11 story IMPOSSIBLE.

    JUSTIN VACULA: "If the arguments and the methodology is bad, the claim is no good. "

    RICHARD GAGE: I USE THE "SCIENTIFIC METHOD" to prove the official 9/11 story IMPOSSIBLE.

    JUSTIN VACULA: "If the arguments and the methodology is bad, the claim is no good. "

    RICHARD GAGE: I USE THE "SCIENTIFIC METHOD" to prove the official 9/11 story IMPOSSIBLE.


    ReplyDelete
  34. CurtOntheRadioNov 11, 2011 12:49 PM

    1632 .....of supposed "professionals". [We know from experience that AE911Troof is not exactly fastidious about what it calls "professionals".]


    And that 1632 (or whatever it is today) must be set against the rest of the professional engineering and scientific community across the world - which vastly exceeds a paltry 1600.

    Yet you ignore all of them.

    Fair enough, but don't go making appeals to authority if you dismiss the authority of those massed against you in far greater numbers and with far greater authority.

    You don't even have the sense to recognise the stupidity of your own position and argument. But that's never stopped you - why should it begin to now? haha.

    ReplyDelete

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