
Some people honestly don't care or are intellectually lazy. People will hold positions and won't [be able to] defend them if asked or pressed. Some take the mantras of "People can believe what they want to believe" and "Everyone has the right to their own beliefs" as a get-out-of-discussion free card. People often don't challenge others' beliefs because they feel that it's impolite or because they want to "make everyone happy." These trends need to stop and intellectual honesty, instead of laziness, should return to a center of importance.
We often won't admit that we are wrong about something and we'll defend a belief even when the position is hopeless and terribly lost. In areas of religion, for example, people will interpret passages to fit their needs and beliefs instead of actually looking at the verse in context. Oh, you don't like that idea? God must not have inspired that verse. Oh, that passage is a good one? God must have inspired that one. Ignore the bad. Love the good? I've had African-Americans tell me that "slavery was different back then" in hopeless attempts to defend the Old Testament. If we don't like to be wrong (and that's most of us, right?), we can admit being wrong today to be correct for the future.
Shouldn't caring about what is true and holding as many true beliefs as possible (as opposed to unjustified or false beliefs) be a major focus of life? If we hate being wrong so much, why don't we journey to discover the truth? If any of my cherished positions are met with great arguments from the other side that seem to challenge me and shake my foundation, I'll reformat my beliefs and amend to be right.
Shouldn't important positions be held with a high standard of warrant? If God/religion/belief is so important to you, for example, shouldn't you read the arguments from both sides and come to a conclusion that you feel is correct so that you're not wrong about the matter? When I was a theist I asked myself, "Is there good reason to believe? This is an important matter, so I should find out whether there is good reason or not." I wasn't concerned about being comfortable. I was concerned about being right. I admitted that I was wrong about my former positions and changed my beliefs...and now I feel that I'm very justified in non-belief because I've encountered the arguments, had the debates, and did the research. As an atheist, I know so much more about Christianity and the arguments for and against God than most theists my age. It's quite sad, but I suppose that it makes sense.
Ironically (?) enough, I've met few theists who actually can demonstrate that they've read both sides of the arguments...people say stupid phrases like "Well, what if you're wrong, you're going to hell," "God exists because the Bible says so and the Bible says it is true," "You just don't believe because you hate God," etc. Serious theists (or even all) should have advanced actual arguments and be able to dictate their position and why they believe quite easily.
I'm convinced that many theists simply are "doing it wrong." Instead of starting from the default position of "I don't know" and then DECIDING to become a Christian, they first start as a Christian and try to justify the position...or in most cases, their parents are Christians and they are children of Christian parents. Non-belief should be the default position...why should we accept a claim before having good reason to accept it.
Imagine that a salesman came to your door and told you that if you bought his product, you'll never have to worry about "x" again. Would you accept his claim or would you first find reasons to accept his claim. You'd certainly ask questions and feel that you're justified in your position of believing him before buying the product. Christianity should be the same way. You should feel justified and have good reasons for belief BEFORE you accept the claims and call yourself a Christian.
If a theist comes to me and tries to "sell his product," I'll certainly accept the claims, but until that happens, I won't believe. I simply can't accept the claims of Christianity without justification.
Ask yourself, for any given important belief:
- Why do I hold this position? Is this belief the result of yearing for truth or just comfort or custom?
- Where did I get the information from? Is the source reliable?
- How would I be able to defend my belief to the most adamant detractor?
- What are the best arguments against my position? Can I provide good responses?
- If this position is important to me, what's more important: being correct or just holding the position? If being correct is important (and it should be), you should choose the side, if applicable, with a good defense.
- Why do people disagree with me on this matter? Why do they hold their positions?
If we're able to look at positions clearly while maintaining the idea that being correct for the future is most important, we can more reliably arrive at justified beliefs. Follow the evidence, reason, and argument to where it leads...don't use the evidence just to support your previously held position.
Positions shouldn't be held without justification; if you have no justification, you simply shouldn't have the belief. Have the courage to admit to being wrong today to be right tomorrow. Prioritize intellectual honesty...especially for important positions.
How would I be able to defend my belief to the most adamant detractor?
ReplyDeleteApparently the answer is no since you turned tail and ran and refused to answer questions when put to you yesterday over on my blog.
As I recall, he answered you here on this venue. He's under no obligation to go to your blog where you ban people routinely.
ReplyDeleteJustin,
JD is nothing more than a right wing mouthpiece and a cheerleader for Jesus. WND opinion pieces are a source of good news for him - or really anything that anyone says that he wants to be true, which is why he actually tried to use a satire site to prove once that Japanese people are cannibals (true story, I don't think I could make it up if I tried).
JD is a bigot (hates gays, 'furriners', muslims, atheists, 'libruls', and probably blacks). He's also a blowhard that claims that atheists are basically idiots that don't know anything about Xianity or the arguments (he's already claimed that you're just an unthinking acolyte of Dawkins) and continually will try to move the goalposts and ask irrelevant questions in order to avoid the tough questions. My first run-in with JD involved him trying to defend slavery in the OT. Never did he do so, instead asking me irrelevant questions. When I tried to get him to return to topic and refused to play his game, he claimed victory and that I was intransigent in refusing to ask his questions about who had authority to wage war in this country during the slave trade. Of course, the funny thing is that I did answer the vast majority of his questions even after pointing out that they were irrelevant and he continued to claim that I didn't.
If you like shooting fish in a barrell, he's fun to kick around sometimes, but ultimately he's just annoying.
Justin.
ReplyDeleteWe are warning you because you have been on the news, and he knows this. He will come at you aggressively, claim victory when he has lost, and ban your comments. And, then tell everyone how he debated you and won. He has had some classic arguments- my all time favorite was his Gay Nazi's one, where we really have to be careful because history will repeat itself. Not a joke, and hit an all time low even for him.He has already claimed that you are an unthinking acolyte of Dawkins- a person that he had admitted to never reading in his life. I told him the Boeing 747 argument myself. Much of what you are doing with your postings here, encouraging him to be intellectually honest, critically source material, we have done verbatim. All to no end. You cannot teach a troll.
Nevertheless.... I like your posting. However, in my experience, many people cannot be intellectually honest because that would mean giving up the emotional "cushion" of having their own God.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDelete"Is this coming from someone whose blog is titled "Why I Hate Jesus"?"
ReplyDeleteYes, it is. So what? How is that related to bigotry, specifically your bigotry? Are you now trying to call me a bigot? Are you in second grade?
"Congratulations for being one of the only people ever banned from my site GCT."
A list that is growing rather fast, and for what? Oh yeah, for talking about the logical conclusions of Xianity, which you blatantly turned into a bard directed at you so that you could use it as an excuse to get rid of someone that you couldn't argue against.
"In order to substantiate your claim that I am a "bigot", please go over to my site and post one clear-cut example of a bigoted statement I have ever made on this thread right here."
1. I'm banned from your site, remember? Duh.
2. Ah, so you aren't a bigot unless you've said something bigotted in this particular thread? WTF? (This is a good example of what I was talking about above.)
3. I've already answered your challenge at Tink's blog, which you ran away from.
"That's amusing.
Is it your belief that I "hate" foreigners so much that this is the reason that I decided to marry one?"
Even slave owners effed their slaves.
"Say, that reminds me, did you ever wind up getting married GCT?"
1. Again, another good example of what I spoke about above.
2. That the American population has social stigmas against atheism is pretty undeniable.
3. Anything conservapedia says should be held as suspect at best.
4. You know nothing of my personal life, and frankly I like it that way.
"Or do you still endeavor to be a shining example of how atheists are generally considered to be quarrelsome and socially challenged and instead, you continue to seek fulfillment through, in your words, quote "group sex"?"
Ha ha ha, when did I ever say that I indulge in group sex? Typical that you simply make things up - it fits the profile, especially given who you take to quote. OTOH, as long as the participants are fully informed and fully consenting, who are you to say that engaging in group sex or any other consentual event that doesn't do any harm to others or usurp the rights of others is wrong or should be looked down upon?
I was merely inquiring if you had settled down by now or if you were still engaging in a lifestyle that you yourself list as an interest of your's on your blogger profile. I also recall that you previously informed me that you aren't married. That's all. Not that such phenomenon would be rare among atheists or anything.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry Justin, that JD has brought this to your blog.
ReplyDeleteI used the phrase "Stop being such a bigot" on his blog and JD threatened me with legal action and then made references to finding out where I lived.
Don't. Take. The bait.
ReplyDeleteThere is no joy on that road.
Uh HUH... This is the troll. I read that he is now using his employer as a way of locating people so that he can see them in court. He is insane.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteJD said:
ReplyDeleteI will be contacting the cyber-crimes unit of my employer to determine who you are on Monday. I will let your entry timestamped 6:51 up on thise blog in order to sue you for libel.
So that Justin can have his blog back, I've created a mini-blog, visit it if you like, JD.
http://offbigt.blogspot.com/
JD,
ReplyDelete"I was merely inquiring if you had settled down by now or if you were still engaging in a lifestyle that you yourself list as an interest of your's on your blogger profile."
A) There may be a reason that I put that on my profile that you are completely unaware of - and honestly, I'm not even sure what all is listed there and don't care enough to check right now.
B) Being interested in a topic doesn't mean that I'm necessarily a participant (would listing religion as an interest indicate that I'm really a theist?)
C) You have no idea of what I have or have not engaged in.
D) Settled down? How patronizing.
E) What is the problem with people who are fully cognizant and able to give consent indulging in an action that doesn't harm anyone else? I note that you completely dodged this question, which is ironic coming from someone who shrilly complains that his questions are being ignored even when they aren't.
"I also recall that you previously informed me that you aren't married."
Maybe I am, maybe I'm not. Maybe lots of things. You should mind your own business, especially since it's completely irrelevant.
"Not that such phenomenon would be rare among atheists or anything."
Already dealt with.
For anyone reading this that might think that I actually might be a bigot, I would suggest the following.
ReplyDeleteGo to my blog and find 1 statement that I ever made that is bigoted and post it on my most current thread.
Many have tried and yet none have ever succeeded in demonstrating as such in the pure daylight of logical argumentation. Might there be a reason for that?
I whole-heartedly endorse JD's suggestion. Peruse JD's blog. The bigotry is very evident, whether he's linking the holocaust to the "gay agenda" or claiming that atheists are stupid (for just a couple examples) it's all there for people to see.
ReplyDeleteIf theism is the default, the salesman that comes to your door is superfluous. You already have the product, and you don't have to pay for it, because some dude 2000 years ago picked up the tab.
ReplyDeleteWe are still bothered by salesman though. Why should this be the case?
It's my personal belief that all theists who spread their religion is guilty of crimes against humanity as they're turning people ignorant and possibly stifling possibly life-saving developments in science and causing people to reject the teachings that actually have scientific backing, as Abraham Lincoln said as he commented on his suppression of habeas corpus "Why must I shoot the boy who runs while I cannot touch the wily alligator who turns him away?"
ReplyDeleteIf theism is the default, the salesman that comes to your door is superfluous. You already have the product, and you don't have to pay for it, because some dude 2000 years ago picked up the tab.
ReplyDeleteWe are still bothered by salesman though. Why should this be the case?
Don't. Take. The bait.
ReplyDeleteThere is no joy on that road.
JD said:
ReplyDeleteI will be contacting the cyber-crimes unit of my employer to determine who you are on Monday. I will let your entry timestamped 6:51 up on thise blog in order to sue you for libel.
So that Justin can have his blog back, I've created a mini-blog, visit it if you like, JD.
http://offbigt.blogspot.com/