Here's some recent hate mail and my response. This one is quite entertaining and quite different. The mailer is indented while my responses are not. Commentary is in italics.
Let's be clear about a few things.
1) You're not an atheist; you're an attention whore- Your definition of "activist" is very concerning. Who exactly are you speaking for? Other atheists? Funny how in the months since your last public panty dance, not a single person has come forward to support you in any meaningful way. This is probably due to the fact that your logic is flawed, your actions are mean-spirited and spiteful, and that your personality detracts from any "cause" you may be championing.
2) You are much too lazy to be an activist- In all these months since you began spewing your nonsense, have you taken any time at all to serve your community or do something good? (*Please don't respond with "Yes, I got some Christmas decorations taken down for a day".*) You're somewhat notable in our area as a rabble rouser and trouble maker....but as far as being an actual benefit to the community, you are far from that. There are actual issues out there...and not even far away. St. Vincent's Soup Kitchen is right around the corner from where you live....I wonder if you can see it from your ivory tower?
3) You're a hypocrite- I read your post bashing the psychic who failed to answer your challenge. I DISTINCTLY remember going on the radio and challenging you at a charity event this past January benefiting a family who fell victim to a fire. This event could have used your notoriety to help a family in need...and apparently my challenge fell on deaf ears. Funny how you'll throw that in someone's face while conveniently forgetting your own past. This makes you a hypocrite, dear boy, no matter how much you hate it.
(I mailed a letter to the editor of the local newspapers here that was in no way "bashing" soon after someone enlisted the help of a psychic. I was also challenged to a professional wrestling match that I did respond to, but got no response. I was never directly contacted and only found out about this through google picking up my name in search engines. See Below.)
4) I know why you don't believe in God; because your parents failed you. That obviously makes you very angry, and you want the community to pay by proxy. Your whining approach to handling the drama you created at Christmastime was very telling; tantamount to a child throwing a tantrum in a store. And, just like a child, as soon as a parent (or, in this case, your community) spanked and scolded you, you ran off and laid low...afraid to even poke your head out. You will learn very early on in childhood development about the child testing the parents. You started trouble because you craved attention and knew people would be upset with you for attacking them at the holidays. You wanted attention of any sort and you got it. But, once you got it, you were unable to do anything useful with it. This is DIRECTLY reflective of your relationship with your parents, and it hardly takes a therapist to identify it.
In short, nothing you will ever say will matter in the least, because you lack the courage to follow your convictions past a typing fit. If you feel strongly that there is no God, go with it. Hell, I find dealing with you pretty convincing proof that no such thing as "intelligent design" exists. That does not change the fact, however, that you are just another useless bump on the log of social ignorance. I sincerely hope you'll figure things out and, to some extent, grow up and be an asset to your community.
In all seriousness, Justin, I strongly feel that you are better than all of this. You have the passion, that's obvious. Now channel it in a productive direction, and try to stir the pot less. These people you attack are just that....people. They deserve as much respect as you...and you forget that. Do better.
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Justin Vacula June 12 at 4:08am
I like the new blog theme by the way.
ReplyDeleteYou know, for as much as I'm a bit baffled by your missionary brand of atheism, I'm equally baffled by the folks who are so incensed by some of your positions that they take the time to write you about it. I mean, If these folks think that they can win you to their side with mean spirited commentary....well, I just don't get it. I would think that the motion would have cooled a bit by the time they got to the end of the email. This fella seems like he wants to help you out, but if he could just get all the anger out of the way before he wrote you a helpful letter... What most of my co-Christians fail to recognize (as do I most of the time) is that we love God as much as the person we love least. Again, I apologize for each instance of a Christian acting uncharitably toward you. Hypocrisy is the tribute that Virtue pays to Vice.
The reason that I take the time to respond to this blog is not because you make me angry, or insecure, or expose my own ignorances. It's because you wrote somewhere that most times you engage with a theist they can't seem to offer up any coherent arguments. In this area, and where you are going to school most people you run into would be Vatican II 'educated' Catholics. And its no secret that for the past forty years there has been no meaningful religious education. It's why I fell away from the faith I was raised in, why you fell away, and why soooo many others are just 'treading water'. Most people are unequipped to 'give a reason for the hope that is within them' -- certainly to the basic levels that you would ask them. Combining the lack of basic philosophical and religious education with the noise and distraction our modern culture offers, there will be many more people to join your cause in the years to come. Whether because they just simply 'check out' of religion and become consumed in their secular life, or because they listen to rational atheist arguments and believe that the religious response is this kindergarten-brand of religion that is so commonly thrown up in defense against you atheists. They become convinced by the 'rational' argument presented with a snarky attitude.
By the way, I was stunned by your atheist prison program. At face value it seems a bit like walking into an AA meeting and convincing everyone there is no higher power; but then expecting a higher percentage of them will not fall off the wagon as a result. Those folks in prison have varying but loose connections to what is otherwise a very strong religious based moral standard. As you yourself admit in your post below (I'll respond later) there is no strong atheistic moral STANDARD. If those guys won't behave for God's sake, what can you offer them?
There is almost nothing constructive in this e-mail whatsoever. It's mainly personal attacks from a person who doesn't even know me.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, there isn't a strong "atheistic moral standard" and that's the point...but we can still behave and be good people without that. There are various reasons, as I have outlined, for both theists and atheists to behave well...and we don't need to appeal to religion for either.
The biggest verifiable benefit religious denominations can offer are a sense of community and tribal (or extended family) cohesion. A prison focused secular/skeptical program offers the same sense of belonging without all the unfortunate baggage endemic with almost any religion, especially the Abrahamic group. There isn't a single positive aspect offered by any religion or denomination that cannot be attained without the inclusion of religious trappings, dogma, abusive doctrin & practices and other deliterious aspects.
ReplyDeleteThere are many 'laws' in both the NT and OT of the Christian Bible that are considered unacceptable in modern society. The context of whether to take a given bit of scripture literally or metaphorically is the moment in history in which it's applied. We'd still be burning witches, stoning disobedient chilren and prostitutes at the city gates were it not for *secular* social pressures which have forced large numbers religious dogmatic practices from every day observation and execution. On the flip side, before the King James Version, it was sex with temple prositutes that was a social faux pas instead of the currently oft touted homosexual as abomination. This politically derived, willful mistranslation of ancient scripture is the very center of the vaunted culture wars. Even this set of scriptural abuses is being rectified by social pressure. It is precisely because of secular morals that the previously executed, otherwise prevailing religious excesses are currently under control. That means it's because of people being good because it's the right thing to do that religion isn't the de facto law of the land. And, that's exactly what the Founding Fathers, who wrought the Constitution of the United States, and subsequently the more socially successful government charters in Europe and worldwide, had in mind.
Nathan, I suppose my shock comes from the idea that folks in prison have various reasons why they can't adhere to what are some pretty clear socially defined boundaries. A religious based program re-connecting them with God can help (but may not) re-establish some very clear reasons why they would want to 'behave'. This is part of the reason that Prison Islam is spreading -- it aligns their 'bad-ass' inclinations with a 'bad-ass' God who has similar attitudes (attitude - not Morals).
ReplyDeleteMy point as further explored in Justin's Prior post is that the new atheism is unapologetically seeking to free Morality from any universal. Standard. That shocking bit regarding the prison program is that you will be opening the eyes of some of these folks to the FACT that in an athiestic system, the only moral standard is the one I create for myself. "Laws ain't got nothin' to do with right/wrong. YOUR ideas ain't got nothin to do with my ideas, if I don't like them."
I predict no lessening of the incarceration rate.
You have some interesting ideas of the development of religion and the secular state in the West (though I partially agree with you on the founding fathers). But I suppose it IS the victors who write history.
Sigh. Atheists don't make up their own rules - they just choose not to follow the outdated and guilt-ridden laws of the Bible. People shouldn't obey because they're scared of the consequences, they should obey because they *understand* their actions have consequences, and because they care about humanity.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/cohen02.htm
This is one of my favorite commentaries on morality, written by the late great Chapman Cohen (a fellow atheist). I hope you are inclined to read it.
Sigh. Atheists don't make up their own rules - they just choose not to follow the outdated and guilt-ridden laws of the Bible. People shouldn't obey because they're scared of the consequences, they should obey because they *understand* their actions have consequences, and because they care about humanity.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/cohen02.htm
This is one of my favorite commentaries on morality, written by the late great Chapman Cohen (a fellow atheist). I hope you are inclined to read it.